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[00:00:00] JP: Hi, this is J. P. Neumann on Investing On Purpose, and today we’re interviewing Jesse Elder. What an incredible conversation with Jesse, such a deep thinker, philosopher, entrepreneur, and really the way he views business and sustainability as one. It’s just a way that I’ve never heard it before. I hope you enjoy us going really, really deep into life and business in this episode.

[00:00:23] JP: Enjoy. Hi, this is J. P. Newman on Investing on Purpose. And today I’m really excited to have a new friend who we’ve, we’ve been to Croatia together. We have been all around the world, but actually haven’t had a chance to get to know each other yet. It’s kind of wild when you think about

[00:00:39] Jesse Elder: it. It

[00:00:39] JP: is, Jesse. It’s crazy.

[00:00:40] JP: We’re Jesse Elder today and Jesse, I feel like, you know, I literally, we both live in Austin, but like, we’ll, we’ll get more conversations in, in Croatia or we’ll be somewhere in a spot. And most recently we were at Mike Dillard’s wedding together and I knew at that time that I needed to get to know you better.

[00:00:59] JP: I’ve heard [00:01:00] you speak. I’ve heard Jack and I just thought like, Hmm. I’ve even been in your pool in your old house, so you didn’t even know this, but you weren’t even there that day, but I was actually, uh, I’m like, who is this Jesse? And, uh, I’m just really excited and honored that we could be together today.

[00:01:15] JP: I know that we’re both, um, brothers in, Helping people seeing less suffering in the world and seeing how we can educate and inspire people for a better outcome for humanity. I know we kind of take different approaches at it, but, uh, the idea of having a brother and mission and purpose together is, um, super cool.

[00:01:34] Jesse Elder: This has been a long time coming and every time we orbit each other, it’s like, Hey, you, I see you. I see you. We’ll get there. We’ll get there. Well, we had the scheduled and then the ice

[00:01:44] JP: storm. We had, we had that 100 year one, once in a hundred year ice storm kind of, Yeah. To lay it out. One of the things I wanted to share, and it was great, we got a chance to have some lunch and catch up, you know, and get to know each other a bit is, I was telling you on my podcast, one of the biggest things for investing on [00:02:00] purpose is, um, really to educate and inspire hopefully a younger generation of entrepreneurs and an older generation of entrepreneurs to make sure that we’re bringing sustainability, mission, purpose.

[00:02:11] JP: And business, because as you and I both know, business and money is currency. It’s just energy. So it’s just making sure that the exchange is not only clean, but fulfilling because when it’s fulfilling for you as the entrepreneur, it’s going to be very fulfilling. Your product or service is just going to ultimately.

[00:02:26] JP: Fulfill and serve in a very different way. So if it’s okay, maybe I’ll just start there. I know we’re probably gonna go in many spots, but maybe we’ll just kind of start with, from what I can tell so far from like when you lecture and when you go around on your own podcast, I know you talk a lot about sustainability and purpose, and I’m wondering if you can add, if you could add something to kind of.

[00:02:47] Jesse Elder: Yeah, the purpose question is such a big one. Like it’s, it’s central to the human experience and as with everything that is central to the human experience, like money and God and [00:03:00] sex, there’s 8 billion different perspectives on it. I mean, it’s that nobody doesn’t have it. Nobody doesn’t have that connection to purpose and so it just sort of gets conflated and confused.

[00:03:11] Jesse Elder: Um, in many ways gets subverted because it is such a powerful force. Yeah. Arguably the most powerful force that a human being has is their purpose. And so when you get these intermediaries who position themselves as the translator, the arbiter of the, I’m the one that’s going to help you find your purpose.

[00:03:29] Jesse Elder: It’s like, yeah, maybe not, or maybe, maybe you need that. But I’ve Like a guru. Yeah. For example. And so when, uh, you know, I went through my own ridiculous period of dark night of the soul and super depressed and you, we’ve talked about some of your experiences with that and

Um, the, the thing that was so painful back then, you know, I was in my mid twenties is that it just didn’t, it didn’t make sense.[00:04:00][00:04:00] Jesse Elder: Like how can it be that I’ve got, like I have this body and I have this mind and I have these desires and then I’ve got these. What’s the point of all of this? You know, what’s the point of having all of this stuff happening? And back then I really did sort of adopt or learn this idea of purpose that is actually a very Western, um, Idea where purpose is actually an outcome.

[00:04:25] Jesse Elder: Like purpose is something that you achieve, like you achieve your purpose, like you are going to achieve, you know, crossing the finish line of a marathon, or you’re going to achieve a nine figure exit, or you’re going to achieve having, you know, healthy kids. And so there’s a lot

[00:04:41] JP: of, it’s almost like goal and purpose get confused.

[00:04:43] JP: It sounds like it sounds like a goal,

[00:04:44] Jesse Elder: but you’re just very, very much, very much. And so then if that’s the mindset. And then if we don’t achieve the goal or we don’t feel like we’re achieving the goal, then we’re not really experiencing our purpose and then that’s very painful. And then over time I started to just to ask [00:05:00] myself, you know, there’s got to be another way of looking at this cause this is, this sucks.

[00:05:05] Jesse Elder: Like this is painful. And over time and just spending time in nature and just sort of observing natural process, I realized that there are, there are no falsehoods anywhere in nature. Like everything in nature operates perfectly and our, you know, relatively short sighted human timelines, we don’t see that.

[00:05:26] Jesse Elder: You know, you see the forest fire like, no, it’s terrible. But if you’re the forest, you’re like, ah, finally get rid of this undergrowth, pop the pine cones open and propagate the seeds. And you know, if you ever go and see a forest, like five years after a forest fire, it’s lush man. There’s all these baby trees everywhere.

[00:05:43] Jesse Elder: It’s incredible. Our generally short sighted human. Um, perspective, we don’t see that, but it is perfect. And so there is perfection in nature. So I began to look at in the natural world, you know, we’re surrounded by these, these beautiful [00:06:00] trees, every one of those trees, it just is what it is. It’s not confused about what it is.

[00:06:07] Jesse Elder: There’s no pecan tree that’s going, Oh, maybe I should be a cactus. Maybe, maybe I’d like to be an Eagle. I would like, maybe I should do there is that doesn’t exist, right? They just are what they are. And so that, that means that everything in nature operates according to predetermined lines of instinct. So there’s variation, but it’s variation within its own.

[00:06:27] Jesse Elder: You know, DNA and within its own, uh, total sidebar, but Rupert Sheldrake is a phenomenal mind and he has a concept of morphic resonance. And so it’s not just the DNA DNA is like the building blocks, but what tells those blocks what to become. Right. So there’s this consciousness that a tree has consciousness that all these things have, but they are still what they are and is a natural byproduct of every living beings existence.

[00:06:54] Jesse Elder: There are certain effects that it has. And so one example that I’ll, I’ll use this a lot with clients [00:07:00] cause I will, I’m very appreciative to be in a position where I have people coming in who have functionally won the game of life. You know, it’s like they had a very successful exit or, you know, they’re a successful entrepreneur.

[00:07:11] Jesse Elder: Kids are healthy. Kids are out of the house or whatever, but then there’s still this like, okay, now what? No shit. You know, I won the game and I don’t know who I am, so it’s like, let’s work there. So I’m very appreciative to be in that position to support people who are in that place. And one of the things that has proven really useful is taking principles from, from observing nature and seeing how do we fit into that?

[00:07:39] Jesse Elder: How, how does the life of a human being fit into these natural principles? And so. If we think about the sun, which is a little, little overcast today, but the sun, it’s the sun. It’s not trying to be the moon. It’s not. It just is the sun. And as the natural by product of the sun’s existence, there are these sort of [00:08:00] radiant consequences.

[00:08:01] Jesse Elder: No pun intended, but there’s heat and there’s light and the sun just exists. And because the sun exists, here’s this heat. Here’s this light. It’s not trying to do that. It can’t not do that. That just happens because the sun is there. Now that tiny, tiny, tiny part of that heat and light lands on this place that we call earth.

[00:08:21] Jesse Elder: And as a byproduct of that, now we have photosynthesis and now we have, Oh, here’s carbon based life forms and here’s, uh, animals and here’s plants and here’s carbon dioxide and here’s oxygen.

Wow. This is so cool. From a, you know, if a human, if an engineer were to design this, all of those would be outcomes.

[00:08:40] Jesse Elder: Okay, we need life on earth. Okay. We need a light and heat. Okay. Go make us a sun. Like we would try and reverse engineer the whole thing, but actual life, actual natural principles are always simple processes, not outcomes. Nothing in nature has outcomes except for human beings. So the sun exists because it exists.

[00:08:58] Jesse Elder: There’s heat and light because of that [00:09:00] heat and light. There’s a tiny bit of that that lands on this planet. But if the earth ceased to exist today. I can’t imagine that the sun would be like, Oh, thank God. Whew. What a drag. Like right now I can recapture some of that 0. 000000. 1 percent of no, right. It just, here’s the light.

[00:09:22] Jesse Elder: Here’s the heat. It’s not taking anything from the sun to feed the earth.

[00:09:30] JP: So then why is it with human beings, why do we crave to be something? Yeah. Or I say to be someone, what do we really crave to be satisfied, right? To feel good, right? This is good. So it’s like a natural craving. It’s almost a natural instinct.

[00:09:42] JP: And we all want, we all want to say, look, if we could, we’d all would want as much happiness as possible and as least misery as possible. I mean, that’s like, that’s like on the most physical level. So then why do we crave? Purpose. Is it to fulfill that we just want to be happy? Is it

[00:09:55] Jesse Elder: a, is it a my, I certainly don’t have a, uh, [00:10:00] you know, the end all be all answer.

[00:10:02] Jesse Elder: Uh, and I imagine that my answer will change five years from now and I hope it does. But as near as I can tell, uh, we are the one exception in nature that does not have to operate according to predetermined lines of instinct. Isn’t that

[00:10:19] JP: interesting? Like why not? Well, that’s a,

[00:10:21] Jesse Elder: that’s an interesting, here’s my take on it again, it goes back to truth versus usefulness.

[00:10:25] Jesse Elder: Who knows what the truth is, right? So I just ask, is this useful? Right. And if it’s useful, I’m all in until it’s not useful and I’m out. So if everything in nature has a purpose, including human beings, and yet human beings have the thing that nothing else in nature has, and a lot of people are going to argue this.

[00:10:46] Jesse Elder: But humans have free will, which means we can choose what we want to be. We can choose who we want to be. We can choose how we want to be. And there are some, you know, [00:11:00] sort of preset agreements, maybe genetically, but But then there’s also epigenetics, like, and if genetics was the end all be all thing that determined how your body was, then you wouldn’t see people transforming their bodies.

[00:11:14] Jesse Elder: You wouldn’t have people with multiple personality disorders or multiple personalities changing eye colors when they went from one personality to another. I mean, right. The body’s a reflection of the mind, right? Period. So. If we have this purpose and yet we’re not bound by these lines of instinct, that means we can make choices and in order to make choices to truly make free will choices, we need the ability to choose suffering and the ability to choose joy because if we don’t have all of those ingredients in the kitchen, so to speak, then how can we actually experience true creation?

[00:11:51] Jesse Elder: If the choice is chocolate or vanilla, you choose, well, What if I don’t like ice cream? What if I want to fast for 48 hours? [00:12:00] What if I want to go have some pine needle tea? What I mean? So purpose

[00:12:03] JP: is a tool for me. Purpose is like a creative tool to help us. Each one of us. If we want to get to it, but basically you call it your conscious, your life purpose, you can call it whatever you want to call it, but it’s, it’s a tool.

[00:12:15] JP: It’s a powerful tool in the toolbox, which is why it’s an instinct. It makes human beings for what we know unique

[00:12:21] Jesse Elder: to create. Yes. Yes. That’s pretty cool. Because if we’re going to create, then we have to have the ability to fail, to make mistakes. And, you know, evolution may. Make mistakes slowly over time, but they’re not mistakes.

[00:12:37] Jesse Elder: They’re just the path of least resistance. And so if all of a sudden, you know, the, the, this particular species isn’t going to flourish in this particular part of the world at this particular time in history, then that, that

species blinks out and a new species blinks in. Right. And so that’s from, I have to imagine from nature’s perspective, that’s not a mistake.

[00:12:55] Jesse Elder: That’s just. Constant change. And I think it’s useful to look at that [00:13:00] from the individual life of a human being is the same thing. Because in order to do that, we have to free ourselves from other people’s expectations of who and how we should be. Then that is very rare to meet a truly free human being who is honest enough to live a life based on rational self interest.

[00:13:18] Jesse Elder: That the reason that they’re here is because they are here to live their life authentically and powerfully and clearly. And if they’re living their life authentically, being the version, being them that they think that they should be independent of anybody else’s unqualified opinions or unsolicited, uh, criticisms, it takes a strong human being to say, you know, I care about you.

[00:13:43] Jesse Elder: I just don’t care what you think. Right? Like that’s a rare human being who can say that. And so if somebody does trend in that direction and they do accept full responsibility for their own self expression, then just like the sun, there are natural byproducts of that person’s [00:14:00] existence that harmonize with.

[00:14:02] Jesse Elder: Maybe things that we don’t even understand yet. Well, think about it. It’s

[00:14:05] JP: interesting. We had a, I loved our conversation at lunch. I’m glad we had time, but probably a little bit in the matrix. I was having like matrix part five or something with you. But, um, the idea of like what rewards us, like we, like we don’t exactly know how, how all the wetware works in our brain, but obviously like we know like communal connection, we know we have certain, we know there are certain things to humanity that create, you know, Happiness, we can call it peace, whatever you want to call it.

[00:14:27] JP: Maybe it’s not, you know, and so to your point with purpose, I mean, I, I think what purpose is really doing when I’m hearing you say is like you’re exercising your creativity. And one of the things that really seems to be, I don’t know this for a fact, but it seems like one of the things that’s in our wetware of our brain creativity.

[00:14:46] JP: It seems like a big, big serotonin drip, uh, as far as creating happiness in people. For whatever reason, that just seems to be innately in us.

So, so we would strive for purpose because it feels good and it feels like, it feels like it’s

[00:14:58] Jesse Elder: right. Do you agree? I love, I love what you just [00:15:00] said. First of all, the, the wetware reference, which we’ll, we’ll come back to, but also I love what you just said that creativity is inside of us and it’s how we become ourselves.

[00:15:10] Jesse Elder: It’s how we become who we’re going to be in the future. Is it? That’s it. I think that’s creation. And what most people are taught to do is to copy and to conform and to fit in. And so, you know, you, none of us was ever properly prepared to handle the world. Like the way it is today. And most of the preparation we got was by people who consciously or unconsciously, they probably wanted your conformity more than your contribution.

[00:15:35] Jesse Elder: Right. And so you’re

[00:15:37] JP: talking to the institutions, all train us, everything in the government, and we’re being trained for conformity because it creates order and efficiency. It doesn’t necessarily foster. It

[00:15:46] Jesse Elder: doesn’t create happiness, right? And does it, because you can’t be happy unless you’re authentic. And if you’re fake, You’ll always be unhappy and then you’ll compete on fake currencies like horsepower and square footage and net worth and those are [00:16:00] fine, but those are expressions of creativity.

[00:16:03] Jesse Elder: They’re not. The genuine, authentic, intrinsic creation.

[00:16:08] JP: And so net worth is a number, square foot is, these are

[00:16:10] Jesse Elder: all numbers. These are, these are external outcroppings of someone’s productive capacity, right? That’s all they are. Yeah. That’s all it is. And, and they’re not good and they’re not bad. Right. But one thing that I’ve observed with, with clients and friends and I’ve observed it in myself is that when we’re engaging this very beautiful analytical, logical, rational thinking, which happens in investing, it happens in business building.

[00:16:34] Jesse Elder: A lot, we become very focused on the numbers and we learn to read the future through the numbers. Very interesting thing. I’m curious if you’ve ever done this, if you write down the word or if you write out the word

number and you just look at the word number and you can think of all the numbers that can be in your, in your life.

[00:16:52] Jesse Elder: You’re, you’re accessing a very particular part of your brain and you’re removing presence from other parts of your [00:17:00] beingness. You’re a creative, intuitive, uh, perhaps trans rational beyond logic. Like there’s something else that we all know is there. We’re tapped into it. So if you take the word number and you just look at that word for a few moments and you look at the word number and look at it, I mean you can do it now you guys are watching this.

[00:17:18] Jesse Elder: Just imagine you’re looking at the word. You’ll see another word up here spelled exactly the same. And what is it when you’ve become desensitized? Numb. Right. And if you become more numb, what is that? Um, number,

[00:17:37] JP: um, number. Oh wow. Wow. Whoa. Yeah.

[00:17:45] Jesse Elder: And so, so

[00:17:47] JP: number and number, that’s kind of, that’s, uh,

[00:17:49] Jesse Elder: it’s a spell.

[00:17:50] Jesse Elder: Yeah. And so all the more reason. And, and many people intuitively feel this, which is why they are averse to numbers and [00:18:00] they don’t want to get involved in numbers and they would rather be free spirited artists, very bohemian, kind of like, you know, the salt of the earth people. And this is why you see such a big divide in the world.

[00:18:13] Jesse Elder: Uh, those that, that I don’t want to say have and have nots, that’s a little simplistic, but let’s say people who are doing very well financially. Relative to the rest of the world, they tend to be, and this is definitely a generalization, but they tend to have smaller lives experientially, meaning yes, you stay at the best places and you have the best things and you drink the best wines and smoke the best cigars and no doubt that is fantastic.

[00:18:45] Jesse Elder: But the broad, the breadth of experience tends to be very small, whereas if you take somebody Again, a total generalization doesn’t have a lot of resources. They may be couchsurfing, they may be hitchhiking, [00:19:00] they may be backpacking across Asia and there is this intense

vibration of resourcefulness and resilience and presence because they have to be.

[00:19:12] Jesse Elder: Like they don’t have net worth and they don’t have, you know, recurring revenue. And so it’s like, you’re like, you gotta, you gotta be present

[00:19:21] JP: to everything. I think like some of my favorite countries like Cuba or Jamaica, people are like, what is it about the Jamaicans are so alive while they’re They have to, to your point, it’s, it’s, it’s scarcity.

[00:19:29] JP: It’s survival. Like where’s, where’s lunch coming from today? In fact, I got to experience that. We actually, I was in Jamaica and got to experience Lily catching our lunch, uh, fish, but like, that was it. There was no, there was no, we had to make up the resources. Two hours in advance, if we were going to

[00:19:44] Jesse Elder: eat.

[00:19:44] Jesse Elder: That’s so good. And so we ended up with this, with this sort of spectrum where you’ve got people that have physical resources, financial resources, but like their sense of adventure and creativity has sort of dulled a little bit [00:20:00] number. And then, and then you have people who are very alive and very like they’ll, they’ll drop into a drum circle in the middle of the park.

[00:20:09] Jesse Elder: They will, you know, call you at four o’clock in the morning like, Hey, we’re going to go for a moonlight hike. You want to go? And there’s this like immediacy to their life, but they don’t have financial resources. And it’s always seemed so strange to me because, I mean, I definitely grew up in that, you know, more in that, in that, um, Area, which area, the, the, the very, very creative, no, really no money, but very creative.

[00:20:35] Jesse Elder: It was a lot of love and fun and music and art and you know, all of that. Um, it just never made sense to me. Like, why should you have to choose? Like if this, if this world. Has the ability to offer all of this stuff. Why would you choose? Right. And so it’s been a very unlooked for path, um, as I figured out my own path through business and, and learn [00:21:00] to, to navigate that world.

[00:21:02] Jesse Elder: It just always seemed to me, and I found myself, you know, teaching and making these videos and podcasts and all this stuff that let’s take these people who are, you know, I affectionately refer to them because I was that woke and broke. And not woke in the political sense, but just like you’re awake, you’re aware to life, but you just, you don’t have two shekels to rub together.

[00:21:23] Jesse Elder: And then you have people who have plenty of physical resources are kind of dull and they know they’re dull and they’re boring and they’re just hoping nobody else sees it. So they’re trying to compete on more horsepower, more net worth, you know, look at my super duper extra cool bottle of wine that I just bought is one of its kind.

[00:21:41] Jesse Elder: Why not have these two groups like learn from each other, which is what like Burning Man is a good example because it’s a very, it’s a very interesting Petri dish. Um, but so

[00:21:52] JP: as I think some of these other groups, like you and I are both in a baby bath water together summit, I find a lot of these communities, uh, I’m now involved with [00:22:00] Daybreakers.

[00:22:00] JP: I’ve been to Antarctica and I’m going to Egypt in a couple of months. I think that’s actually, as you’re talking, that’s actually what attracts me to these groups. Yes. Because it is this kind of right brain, left brain, bringing it together. Just one other comment about numbers, because I’m a numbers, you know, I’m not, let’s say I’m a numbers guy.

[00:22:13] JP: Remember, I started out at Sony Pictures producing animation. So actually, if you would have asked me 20 years ago, I never thought I’d even be able to get in the numbers side because I was so involved in, Hearing stories and producing animation, like the idea, can I even do numbers? And it’s actually been for me a learning process to get actually more to the other atmosphere, but I’m very good at it.

[00:22:33] JP: But, but being both kind of a creative and someone I’m very good with numbers. I have a lightning, like my brain at this point, I’m fixated. I can, we could have had a conversation a year ago. You could have told me a number on something. I probably would remember it. It’s very strange. And I already know the answer.

[00:22:48] JP: Like I can look at a deal and pretty much do the numbers in my head. I don’t need, and part of that is an art to me. So my point is, it’s not that the numbers are bad. Not at all. It’s just how you use them. Like numbers, you

need them to count with, like they’re, they’re very useful. [00:23:00] Right. But numbers,

[00:23:00] Jesse Elder: it’s the language of the

[00:23:01] JP: universe.

[00:23:02] JP: It is. And the numbers to me are the platform for my creativity, which is how to put this deal together. How do I do this? What can I do? And so it’s like, Then it becomes clay. I just want to make the distinction. It’s the numbers that don’t cause the numbness. It’s what you do with the numbers. Or

[00:23:15] Jesse Elder: it’s the not doing.

[00:23:16] Jesse Elder: Or the not doing. With the

[00:23:17] JP: numbers. Right. It’s like not taking that creative approach and just really working Just vowing to the spreadsheet of like, this is what I’m going to produce. This is what the spreadsheet says. I actually said in a couple of podcasts ago with Ryan, my worst deals that I’ve had the least successful were deals that I used more of a spreadsheet and less of my gut.

[00:23:35] JP: And they were completely wrong deals because I didn’t have a conviction, didn’t have a passion. I didn’t feel it, but, but, but it made sense on paper. They really made sense in that spreadsheet. And I’ve, I’ve really learned at this point in my career, it. It’s been my biggest failures is, is relying too much on that spreadsheet.

[00:23:52] JP: So I think we’re going back to like finding out what numbers are and what numbers aren’t.

[00:23:56] Jesse Elder: And I’m, I’m really glad you brought that in because the [00:24:00] numbers are, you know, they are a description. They’re also a prescription. And so then it depends on what, what are you going to do with this information? And that’s, that’s the part that I think my, my Um, not skepticism, but my, my caution around numbers is that if, if the numbers inform you and open up a possibility, but you don’t step through that door, right, then like what were, you’re just going to keep making that up on volume, right?

[00:24:30] Jesse Elder: You know, you’re just going to keep accumulating more numbers, right. To make up for the fact that you’re actually not exercising creativity and

[00:24:35] JP: courage. So let me ask you a question, cause this is exactly what my podcast is really about. I’m hoping the listeners are getting value out of this because.

[00:24:42] JP: Every, most guys, you know, especially listening to this podcast are probably your type A’s. They want to, providing is important to them. It’s, you know, and entrepreneurs, they have that spirit of wanting to, to build and create. And yet so many of us can get caught up. And I see that in my child right now, my kid’s 17.

[00:24:56] JP: And I already see my child preparing for college. I see. How [00:25:00] rigid it’s become between the SAT test. He has to have perfect grades, almost a perfect score. And I, and I’m trying to loosen him up, but, but I see where it starts. And my point is for maybe, you know, the audience listening to the show already has a business or, you know, in it.

[00:25:15] JP: Um, I interviewed Mickey, uh, recently. I don’t know if you know, I’m sure you know Mickey Argerwall in town. And Mickey says for her. It’s about her creative processes dance, like, like literally moving your body. Like she finds it. What is your secret? Because it’s very easy in this world, seven steps to a million dollars.

[00:25:30] JP: We’re all being, you and I are, we’re with those people. There’s some of them are good friends, like Ryan, my cohost, you know, Ryan’s, you know, how, again, some of that stuff’s great, strategy’s great, but how what’s your own creative process of leaning into that balance between it so that it is that you don’t, you don’t numb.

[00:25:49] Jesse Elder: Yeah, this is such an important topic. And, and there is a very strong connection between what we’re about to talk about and actual purpose.[00:26:00][00:26:00] Jesse Elder: You know, the, the, no matter how much money you make, you want more like anybody who’s healthy wants more. There’s not a single person who’s. Who understands the game of money, who has a number that they hit and they go, all right, that was great. Yeah. A couple

[00:26:19] JP: of smart people, but I agree. Most people don’t.

[00:26:20] JP: It’s

[00:26:21] Jesse Elder: not, yeah, it’s not usual. Yeah. Um, and, and I, I can think of a couple as well who reached a number and then their focus shifted. Right. But they didn’t stop wanting. Totally. They just wanted something

[00:26:32] JP: different. I always say money’s super fun if you’re using it the right way.

[00:26:34] Jesse Elder: It’s super fun. Right, right.

[00:26:36] Jesse Elder: And so. So there is, there’s a great, my brother is also in real estate and he sent me a meme a couple of years ago. It’s Mr. Burns from the Simpsons and he’s sitting there like this, you know, and he says, I would give it all up. For just a little more. And it’s so, it’s so genuine. And that’s the thing, like making peace with that.

[00:26:59] Jesse Elder: You’re [00:27:00] always going to want more. Well, it’s actually

[00:27:01] JP: my, it’s gonna be a question I have for you because I’m in that period. We’ll talk about it. I don’t want to, I don’t want to switch subjects yet, but yeah, absolutely.

[00:27:06] Jesse Elder: So, so to stay. To stay, not only to stay engaged and to stay alive, but to remain relevant.

[00:27:14] Jesse Elder: We have to constantly be on our own edge of what our certainties are. And so where money becomes a numbing agent is when you have money for the sake of money or you have the trappings of money that don’t actually, they’re not a part of you. And so Um, to stay relevant and to stay fresh, it really is the, the, I, I consider these the, the, like the bookends or the, or the riverbanks of human experience, courage and creativity.

[00:27:45] Jesse Elder: And in our mutual friend, Dr. Jack Charles Onloka has this great question. When was the last time you did something for the first time? Yeah. And that’s a stumping question for a lot of people. So if we look at creativity and courage as the [00:28:00] riverbanks that our life has lived through, um, Yeah. Then it’s a lot of people kind of run out of ideas and the idea of doing something that is courageous.

[00:28:10] Jesse Elder: That’s, that’s different. It’s totally subjective. It’s different things for different people. Um, for me personally, I’ve always found the most life, um, by being on, on the leading edge of something. You know,

when I was in my twenties, it was doing these no holds barred fights. It was like, I just have to experience, I have to know what this is like.

[00:28:29] Jesse Elder: And then. You know, 10 years later, it’s like, I’m on a motorcycle, never rode a bike before. Let me learn to ride a motorcycle. And next thing you know, I’m going 80 miles an hour down the road. I’m like, man, this actually feels comfortable. If I feel peaceful, I wonder what 90s like, and then goose it up to 90 and like, Oh shit, get those butterflies.

[00:28:45] Jesse Elder: And you’re, you know, nether regions start tingling, but that moment in many moments like that, that where you feel the presence of fear is such an instructive point because [00:29:00] The, the normal reaction to that sensation is to pull back, to slow down. And I remember vividly one time I was, I was, uh, I had just gotten a bike a couple of years before that.

[00:29:12] Jesse Elder: I was a Ducati, uh, Street Fighters, amazing bike, very well balanced. And I was going to San Antonio to visit my family, my parents and my, my brothers. And I was going down to 90. So I was, you know, leaving downtown going to 90 to 281. Beautiful ride. Sunday morning. Nobody on the road. It’s like 10 o’clock in the morning.

[00:29:30] Jesse Elder: Beautiful blue skies. It was just like one of those Perfect electric days, you know, and I’m on the bike and Texas doesn’t have helmet laws. Um, and I’ve found that I am a better rider and a safer rider when I’m not wearing a helmet. Um, that’s obviously not a prescription and I know people may get offended by that, but this has not been endorsed by, they’re free, they’re free, they’re free to be offended.

[00:29:54] Jesse Elder: So anyway, I’m on the bike and I’ve just got these sunglasses on, uh, Nectar’s actually from baby bathwater. Yeah, nice. So I had [00:30:00] these Nectar’s on and I’m, I’m going and I’m like 80 miles an hour. And I realized how, how, how peaceful I feel and how calm I feel. And just the wind is, you know, pushing your face back and you know, the beards just everywhere.

[00:30:14] Jesse Elder: And you’re just like, wow, man, this feels good. And then the thought occurs to me, I wonder what 90 would feel like. So I’m like, I’m going to find out. So I goosed the throttle a little bit, get up to 90 and at 90 it was scary. 80 wasn’t, 80 was peaceful, 90 was scary. And I felt the fear. I could feel this adrenaline pumping the whole thing.

[00:30:40] Jesse Elder: It’s like, you know, you, you, you’re like, bringing you right to presence. You’ll be super present. Totally, totally present because you have pavement going by you at 90 miles an hour. And the thought, the pain, the penalty is big at 90. It’s a, it’s everything. Yeah. Like it’s everything. And so 90, like if the thought occurs, this is scary, I’m going to slow down.

[00:30:58] Jesse Elder: And then I caught myself. [00:31:00] Is this a, a rational fear? Like is 90 that much more dangerous than 80? Is 80 that much more dangerous than 70 is like, where is the point at which speed becomes the factor? And I realized that on, on this road, this giant four lane stretch of, of beautiful Texas blacktop, the surface is like butter.

[00:31:23] Jesse Elder: Like it’s so smooth. It’s just like grippy. These, these tires are perfectly broken in. There’s not an ounce of moisture in the air. There’s not another person out here. So the conditions are about as good as they can be. To go at this speed. So like my logical brain is ticking off those, those answers. Now I’ve still got this fear and I realized, you know what, this is an irrational fear because I trust the laws of physics and I trust this bike and I trust myself.

[00:31:53] Jesse Elder: So I goosed it and I got up to a hundred and now the fear comes back again. Is this a [00:32:00] mistake? Is this a bad idea? At a hundred, one armadillo and that’s it. But then this is a very interesting thing. And again, I’ll say this only one more time. This is a description of my subjective experience, not in any way a prescription for what someone else should do.

[00:32:18] Jesse Elder: I get it to a hundred and I feel that peacefulness again. I feel this calm. I feel my solar plexus like open up. And I felt connection to something like it was light, it was beautiful. And all of a sudden I felt like I’m standing still and everything else around me is kind of like moving past me, but I’m in one spot.

[00:32:44] Jesse Elder: You’re in the flow. You’re

[00:32:45] JP: in the flow state. As Jamie wheel talks about, you’re in, you’re in a flow

[00:32:47] Jesse Elder: state, a hundred percent. I’m like, all right, I wonder what’s at one 10 boy. So I goose it up to one 10. Felt fine. That feeling of fear was still there, but it went [00:33:00] away almost instantly. Yeah. 115, 120, 125. Wow.

[00:33:07] Jesse Elder: And at 125, you’re so, you’re just in another realm from 80. Like it’s not even the same. You know, I like cars, so I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So you’re there and the wind is pressing the glasses into your face and your face is like this. And I remember feeling connected to this something and two thoughts occurred to me as I was there.

[00:33:33] Jesse Elder: I glanced down real quick and I’m at 125 and two thoughts, one after the other. First thought was, If I hit an armadillo, you’re gonna die. I’m gonna be spread out over this car. You’re gonna be the armadillo. I am gonna be the armadillo. I’m gonna be the road killer. I get that somebody, somebody is graphic, but you know, somebody would be driving by going, what’s that for?

[00:33:53] Jesse Elder: Like a quarter mile. Oh sure. What is that? There’s a leg. There’s a leather brother, leather suit. So the first thought was [00:34:00] like one, one rock, one armadillo, one, you know, whatever. And that’s it. And then the next thought that came in was. If that were to happen, so be it. So be it. And then it wasn’t a fatalistic feeling and it wasn’t a, in any way resigned or, or, um, you know, there wasn’t like an ideation or anything.

[00:34:24] Jesse Elder: It was just, if that was to be the case, so be it. And then that thought sort of unpacked itself. I mean, all this, it’s taking 50 times longer to explain than, than, than when it happened. Sure. But it was like, okay, if I’ve hit something, I’m dead. All right. If I died, well, I’d be okay with that. And then another thought unraveled from there in, it was around other people and it was around, you know, my family and it was around, you know, whoever might find my body, you know, all these things.

[00:34:50] Jesse Elder: And I thought, well, that’s their experience. And yes. I play a role in that experience because of my choice to go at [00:35:00] this speed, but their experience of that event is theirs. And it was the weirdest, almost unsettling level of peace as I realized I’m not responsible for other people’s experience. I’m responsible for mine.

[00:35:17] Jesse Elder: Yeah.

[00:35:18] JP: You know, Jesse, it’s really interesting. I’m listening to you carefully and, and, uh, Because I think a lot of people go the other direction when they get, once they start to achieve things, they almost become adrenaline junkies. So it’s like, I need, and I know that Jimmy talks about this, so like, you need like one more, one more.

[00:35:35] JP: Hit of acid. You need 20 miles an hour faster on a motorcycle. But actually when I hear you say, which is interesting, because that usually doesn’t lead to good outcomes. That’s why celebrities crash and burn. That’s why a lot of people, that’s why wealthy people can crash and burn and what have you. But I hear you saying in a way in that moment at birth peace, because ultimately I would think like, why would you want to, why is, going back to the original question of why is purpose important?

[00:35:56] JP: It’s the birth of creativity. Why is that creativity important? [00:36:00] Joy and happiness. Well, how do you create the joy and happiness? And what I heard you say from that, that’s like, it literally took me burning through fear in this case, looking fear in the face, looking death in the face in this moment. And, um, and looking in the eye and at the moment, just being, being a victor of that is actually got you there.

[00:36:17] JP: So purpose really is what I hear. If I’m just going to bring it back a little bit, it’s like yelling it, right? It’s not about driving the motorcycle fast. It’s not about doing, you know, a stronger drug or whatever it takes to make people alive. It’s for you. It’s like you were saying creative. I’m sorry.

[00:36:32] JP: What was this like? Creativity and courage. Encourage. Yeah. And what you’re really talking about is courage to face your deepest fear so you can be liberated. Yes. But you got to take the journey to do that. So if you get, if you hide behind an Excel spreadsheet or behind the numbers, you get numb. Very well said.

[00:36:46] JP: Right? Very well said. But if you actually take the adventure, even though if it’s an uncomfortable adventure,

[00:36:50] Jesse Elder: especially if it’s an uncomfortable

[00:36:52] JP: adventure, especially if it, but if it, if it encompasses creativity and ultimately. Because I’m really good at creativity. I don’t know if I’m as good as courage.

[00:36:59] JP: I think, [00:37:00] I think creativity is easier to fall back on. It’s safer. Yeah. So I’m even listening to you carefully about like, being correct, like really being crazy, like super courageous. And, uh, I think right now, maybe that’s why the psychedelics are so popular right now, like that people on ayahuasca, it’s like, it’s a big part of it.

[00:37:18] JP: It’s a big part of it. Right. It’s actually facing it. But, but I think that it’s important just to kind of wrap up the thought about purpose is that’s actually what you’re saying is like, you will find happiness by, by looking fear in the, in the deepest spot and here’s a great way you can do it. And you can certainly, if you want to use your business, it’s a great way to, it’s, there’s many ways to do this, but business can certainly be one of them.

[00:37:37] JP: Your,

[00:37:37] Jesse Elder: your perception is. Spot on, like I’ve had many conversations like this and what you pulled out of that story is very rare because it’s not about the bike. Somebody can go do a nine day vipassana or 10 day vipassana and experience the same confrontation with yourself. Oh, totally. And it’s like a lot of ways to get that.

[00:37:58] Jesse Elder: Um, and [00:38:00] one thing that I really appreciate about your perspective on that is that Like, if we are, if we’re really here to be alive, like fully alive, we don’t need to seek the sensational. Uh, things, you don’t need the, the overwhelming sensorialness of a motorcycle ride or a rave with chemicals pumping into your bloodstream or an orgy or, you know, there are sensorial things that you can do.

[00:38:28] Jesse Elder: Yeah. But those are optional. Those are not required in order to live a fully self authorized or increasingly self authorized, self actualized life. You just got to go over the whole death thing because death’s not real. And so it’s like, as long as that’s a thing for someone, then they’re going to be avoiding the fullest expression of their purpose.

[00:38:46] Jesse Elder: I love it.

[00:38:47] JP: Well, I’m going to take a curve ball here because I’m going to, I want to dive right into that. And maybe I’m going to ask you for some advice at the same time. So I would tell you that. I still have the death fear and [00:39:00] the suffering fear. And I think I’ve come a long way on my journey where it doesn’t, I mean, I kind of know.

[00:39:06] JP: On some level, it’s just kind of a, you know, it’s not what it looks like. It’s, it’s, it’s more of an illusion, but at the same time being, inhabiting this mortal body and being able to touch you and be able to touch me, it’s still something that I find that the minute, like I’ve got a little spot on me, I find my heart, your motorcycle, but it’s my 125 mile an hour kind of, um, jump.

[00:39:30] JP: And so I guess, I mean, here’s the bigger question for you. I definitely want to ask you more about, uh. Death, but I’m going to go one thing higher because you might see that they’re connected. Um, so I’m in a spot right now where I’m feeling like I’m ready for something like, like a little antsy ness. Like, I’m like, uh, I, I’ve described it to some friends.

[00:39:51] JP: It feels like I’m in like 2. 0 of my business. I’ve established the business. Um, Markets changing right now. So there’s, I can [00:40:00] take you really rational, but my spirit is like restless again. And, uh, and so as I, you mentioned you were with Cameron Herald and I’m actually about to do something called Vivid Vision.

[00:40:09] JP: It’s Cameron Herald’s book for those of you who don’t know. And it talks about really creating another vision, which goes back to mission and purpose. And I’m thinking, well, I, I’ve kind of manifested what I want to manifest. And, I’ve had a couple friends say to me, and I’ve actually had some guides say to me, well, JP, gosh, you’ve done it.

[00:40:26] JP: Why are you working so hard? Like, why do you need to do this again? And, um, I had a message. Someone’s like a friend of mine who’s really intuitive, wrote me a great poem. And he said, JP, just remember, there’s nothing you need to say, seek, just relish in the gifts you’ve been given, right? Just relish. Like, and so then it really makes me think as I’m about to go on one of my typical type A, you know.

[00:40:49] JP: One of the best coaches out there for the vision, uh, and, and really, and, and part of me just sounds fine because I’m a storyteller, I like to figure out what the next story is going to be. But I wonder again, [00:41:00] if I’m leaning too much, I want to get your advice on that because I’m thinking about. Not just what my company.

[00:41:05] JP: I can tell you about the numbers, but also what, what I love about Cameron’s thing is what I want to feel like when I’m waking up, you know, what is it? And I, and I kind of said to this coach, I kind of know most of it cause I’m living it now. But what if there’s five or 10 percent of the edge that I don’t know?

[00:41:19] JP: I want to know what that is. But my confession to maybe advice is once again, I’m leaning heavily on my creativity, which is my strong suit, but where’s the courage in that? That’s a big, I know it’s a lot.

[00:41:32] Jesse Elder: No, it’s, it’s, it’s. I mean, I’m pausing and taking that in because it’s such a fucking brilliant question and it’s so rare.

[00:41:41] Jesse Elder: It’s rare. It’s rare for, for anybody. It’s rare for an adult. It’s rare for a grown man. It’s rare for a man who’s a successful entrepreneur to say, I wonder if I could use more courage in my life. Like it’s such, it’s like the 1 percent of the 1 percent of the 1%. It’s like the, the.[00:42:00][00:42:04] Jesse Elder: And because it’s coming from a place of, um, of curiosity. Not need. Yeah. It’s coming from a place of, Oh, I wonder what that would be like. Not I’m trying to escape from something else, which is the difference between like the thrill seekers who kill themselves versus someone who’s an artist who just keeps finding, finding the edge, finding the edge, finding the edge.

[00:42:25] Jesse Elder: And we’re going to take a step back historically and then we’ll dive into and maybe give some, some, some specific, um, strategies or ideas. The, uh, incredible dumbing down, uh, of our species, um, over the just last 150 years is, is phenomenal. Like it’s incredible. 12 year old kids, 150 years ago would go down to the general store and buy 10 pounds of dynamite and walk back home, 10 miles, [00:43:00] stick the fuse in the thing, put it at the old stump.

[00:43:04] Jesse Elder: Light it, run away, cover their ears, blow it up, haul the pieces out, prepare everything. And then dad comes home from the sawmill or the factory or wherever he’s at. He checks and he’s like, all right, you know, it’s like, this was normal for kids. Now we don’t play with fireworks. Now you can’t even play with fireworks.

[00:43:22] Jesse Elder: Now you can’t. I mean, we already get into that. Yeah. Um, David Farragut, uh, was, uh, ended up becoming a famous Naval officer and he took command of his first vessel when he was 14 or 15. 12 years old. Wow. His father was a captain and they had taken, they had overtaken a Navy ship or a enemy ship and they needed someone to, to captain that ship.

[00:43:42] Jesse Elder: So he tells his son, 14 years old, Max might’ve been younger, says, you’re in charge. So this kid takes over the ship and is in command of all these men. Like a lot of people would say, we lost that. We haven’t lost that. Every [00:44:00] child that’s born is born with that. They’re born with that creativity, that natural curiosity, that willingness to do something that’s scary.

[00:44:09] Jesse Elder: They’re born with that. So you don’t ever lose it. You just, it just atrophies. Because you learn to play it safe and you learn to be protected and you learn to, you know, not, not, not be so risky and don’t, don’t, don’t dress like that. And don’t you learn all these things, but it can be unlearned. And I’m, I mean, I’m again, very appreciative to have stumbled upon a business that allows me to do this for a living where my entire.

[00:44:35] Jesse Elder: Business is writing protocols for people to find what is their particular edge psychologically, mentally, emotionally, physically, relationally, where is it that is going to give them the perfect combination of, holy shit, this is awesome. I’m so excited. I’m a little worried, but I’m mostly excited. So that there’s no discomfort.[00:45:00][00:45:00] Jesse Elder: There’s an old Dave Matthews song. Uh, there’s a line in there, it says. Um, take what, take what you can from your dreams. It’ll take the work out of the courage. Grace, Grace, Grace, Grace Street, say it one more time, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Take what you can from your dreams. It’ll take the work out of the courage.

[00:45:24] Jesse Elder: And so, you know, like you’re going through Cameron’s process and Vivid Vision, my just suggestion would be that in that Vivid Vision, that you include elements of curiosity and courage, do it, finding things that appeal to you, but maybe you haven’t done because you know, whatever, you’re not used to it, you know, find that edge and, and it is really, um, Thank It, it does take practice because we’ve got to get through the, the [00:46:00] atrophy of, of habits.

[00:46:01] Jesse Elder: Um, you know, it’s cliche, but true that what got you here, we’ll get you there. So specifically, excuse me, finding experiences or, or, you know, having a guide that can take you through experiences where you don’t even know what the experience is going to be, but it’s going to be something that you’re going to be safe.

[00:46:22] Jesse Elder: But Holy shit, it’s going to be a little edgy, right? This is going to be interesting. There’s an event that I’m developing right now, which, um, is, is, I don’t have a release date yet. Um, but very small event, uh, probably eight guys and it is a steadily escalating experiences or escalating set of experiences so that you get to feel like 99 percent confident and 1 percent I don’t know.

[00:46:46] Jesse Elder: Yeah. But then it happens and you’re like, wow, I fucking did that. And then you get on the next one and the next one and the next

one. So by the time you go through four days of this, you’re Wolverine, man. You know, it’s

[00:46:57] JP: interesting. I appreciate that because I, I think maybe [00:47:00] it’s an interesting experience.

[00:47:01] JP: Like I said, I almost feel like I’ve been a little like. Um, maybe it criticizes the wrong word, but when people say, you know, yes, I, I, I love the, the, the idea and the philosophy of really, um, relishing our gifts that we have and being grateful. But at the same time, I’ve also feel like I’ve been a little bit like school, like, can’t you just be happy with what you have?

[00:47:20] JP: And um, it’s been weighing on me, like, am I, like, am I? Am I, why am I, is it bad that I’m restless or is a restless soul part of, of, of being a human being? Like now it’s like, okay, I’ve done this, but why would I stop it? And to your point? Sure. Money’s fun. I have a new number that I’ve thrown out there, but I already know that it’s not about the money at this point.

[00:47:38] JP: Cause like, I know the joy won’t come from the numbers. The joy is going to come from the creative path. So the reason why I’m about to spend a pretty good commitment on, I think a great coach and I don’t do this a lot. I’m, I, I, I really. Because I think I’m talking out loud as I’m speaking to you because I don’t think I knew this until our conversation is my soul is saying, okay, well you get to let, you don’t get to get to rest on your laurels just because [00:48:00] you have this and this X, Y and that.

[00:48:02] JP: Those are the trappings that you’re talking about, right? Trappings, the trappings, the trappings. And I generally am an alive person that enjoys them, but my soul is kind of calling, okay, you did that already. You live that plateau. Time to figure

[00:48:16] Jesse Elder: out what’s next. And again, I mean, the more that we dive in and the better we get to know each other, like I have so much, um, Just fondness for you, man, because your ability to have the self aware, to have the self awareness of feeling that restlessness and honoring, or I would guess that you just assume that there’s a positive intent inside of that restlessness.

[00:48:43] Jesse Elder: And what most people do, I can’t say most in my experience, working with successful entrepreneurs, investors, that restlessness tends to be sedated. It tends to be muted. It tends to be, you know, it’s like too much for other people. So [00:49:00] it’s like they pull back on that and then like that’s basically the end of your life.

[00:49:04] Jesse Elder: Like your body will keep going for a few decades, but like, that’s it. And so your acknowledgement of that restlessness.

[00:49:12] JP: But you just taught, you really helped me today because I’ve been not understanding why this is so important. I mean, people are questioning me and I don’t really know the answer. I just knew instinctually it was super important to me.

[00:49:22] JP: Um, again, I feel like there’s been a lot of resistance and I just keep saying, hell yes. Usually I’m a person who likes to listen to a lot of people, but I’ve been really like, no, I’m doing this. I’m doing this. Do you know I need to know I’m doing this. But now I think you’ve given me the clarity as to why.

[00:49:36] JP: And actually I think the gift today, maybe for the audience and for myself is, um, You know, we talk a lot about how, how to, how to develop, you know, creativity, how do you manifest, which is all a creative process. Mm-Hmm. . But I love this idea of courage and a healthy version of courage. Right. Which isn’t, again, isn’t, you don’t have to put yourself in physical danger.

[00:49:55] JP: No. You know, it’s funny, every day I’ve been doing the cold water plunge just in my regular pool. Yeah, yeah. [00:50:00] And I hate it. Every day my brain says no. Every day. I know it’s a small piece. Every day I say no. And I go in anyways for four minutes. And I know that at this point, I don’t know if that’s courage or what, but it’s like, I know my brain’s saying no, and it really is like, I think that it is kind of a, a fuck you to my brain to go in there every day and do something your body just doesn’t

[00:50:17] Jesse Elder: want to do.

[00:50:18] Jesse Elder: And what you get on the other side of that is you get increased mastery. You get increased sense of self esteem and that self esteem has a half life and so it wears off. It does. And so you’re only as good as your last courage.

[00:50:31] JP: So the trick to your point though, and I can see this, I’m talking, I’m talking out loud is.

[00:50:36] JP: Like, I really, I’m kind of enjoying this experience of this, of this lifetime. So I don’t necessarily want to put my life in danger or got kids and kind of enjoying meeting new friends and stuff like this and just being here. So I guess I just want to make sure that I’m doing it in healthy ways. And I would

say for the whole audience, just, you know, looking at courage in a way that can be healthy.

[00:50:56] JP: Um, again, I can understand why psychedelics, it certainly can [00:51:00] be scary when you lose control of. Uh, that is, is one way that people are kind of, you know, expressing it right now. Um, some people take all kinds of physical challenges. They try to lift more, try to outdo it in sports. I love cars myself. I, I, I, I’m, but I’m also, um, I’ve hit, I’ve actually hit a possum at 90 miles an hour and hit it in the right spot.

[00:51:20] JP: So it didn’t hurt me, but like it is, it’s a

[00:51:23] Jesse Elder: tension getter. I’m

[00:51:24] JP: now doing the most of my speed on the racetrack. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:51:27] Jesse Elder: Yeah. You bring up a really good point there. There’s There is a, a responsible way to experience intelligent danger where you can be in what feels like a dangerous situation, right?

[00:51:43] Jesse Elder: And there may even be some genuine high stakes. But the overall container has been thoroughly cultivated and curated. Um, and I’ll give you an example of this. One of this, this, uh, experience that I’m designing, it’s called the edge. And it’s these four days, um, [00:52:00] immersion, one of the. I think you’ll like this, there’s, so there’s, there’s a blind spot that most people have psychologically, um, around, uh, peacefulness and, and violence.

[00:52:13] Jesse Elder: And so there’s this glorification of violence in the movies and in media, but there’s a demonization of violence when it comes to the individual level, like a game that’s violent or a movie that’s violent is like, yeah, but an individual who’s violent, actual individual in society is bad. That’s bad.

[00:52:31] Jesse Elder: Right. Well, it can’t be both. And so they coming from a martial arts background and having had the very real experience of being in fights, um, you know, being a bouncer and seeing people lose their minds, you know, they’re high, they’re drunk, you know, and watching a guy just haul off and smack this girl with a beer bottle.

[00:52:55] Jesse Elder: And I’m just like going to the crowd and grab this dude and choke him out and take him out. [00:53:00] And then reflecting on that. There is no question that like that had to happen. And I’m glad that I had the

ability to communicate in the language that he chose. He chose the language of violence. And when someone else chooses the language of violence, it’s useful to be fluent.

[00:53:19] Jesse Elder: And I’ve had a lot of friends who will say, well, I would never own a gun like you already own a gun. You’re just paying for somebody else to have it. And hope that they get here if you need them, right? So we all own guns, right? Whether or not you know how to use it is a totally different thing, right? So then that brings into this question.

[00:53:39] Jesse Elder: And, uh, Jack Aloka and I have talked a lot about this and he has some great perspectives on it, but somebody cannot truly be peaceful unless they also have the ability to be violent

[00:53:57] Jesse Elder: when somebody says I’m a pacifist. [00:54:00] But they actually don’t have any other choice, then they are not peaceful. They are harmless. And there is a very big difference. Um, Jordan Peterson has some interesting things on this sort of, he goes a different direction, but you know, basically the, the idea that, you know, you should be a monster, you should be able to be that.

[00:54:25] Jesse Elder: Um, and, and for me, it’s just always, I mean, I’ve done this since I was a kid, you know, so I, I am very appreciative to have had this experience and where I’m going with this is that in order for us to be fully ourselves, we have to be free from irrational fear. And that doesn’t mean it always. We’re always free from it.

[00:54:45] Jesse Elder: It means that when it shows up that we can alchemize it and turn it into the fuel that it’s actually supposed to be and do that as fast as possible.

[00:54:53] JP: And what would be your top tips? I know meditations

[00:54:55] Jesse Elder: are not one that everyone, here’s, here’s where we’re going with this because one of the [00:55:00] experiences that I do with clients, I’m putting it into the edge.

[00:55:03] Jesse Elder: Most of us don’t have an experience of what it feels like to actually be dangerous. We freak ourselves out if we think about being dangerous because we don’t trust ourselves to handle that power of being dangerous. Make sense? So we just don’t get into it. So I teach people how to become dangerous. I love it.

[00:55:24] Jesse Elder: Like how to become lethal.

[00:55:25] JP: I was with a vet who had eight, eight trips to Afghanistan this week. And she was part of Special Ops, one of those powerful women in Special Ops. And she did get pretty bad damage from a bomb. And she has two hearing aids, a younger person. She’s actually gonna be running for Congress.

[00:55:41] JP: Um, but I, I still get like, like that to me is surreal because that kind of danger where like what’s happening in Ukraine and all those soldiers everywhere. All around the world. I mean, they’re literally, they’re just, they’re waking up, they’re eating breakfast and they could be killed at any moment, you know?

[00:55:56] JP: Thank goodness, you know, it hasn’t been a reality for most Americans, [00:56:00] unless you fought in the Vietnam War. But for most generations, like we’ve kind of had this peaceful, we haven’t had it. So in some ways we aspire as a society to not have to like risk our life and limb, right? But that’s not what you’re talking about.

[00:56:13] JP: When you say violence, I think what you’re talking about is really facing fear, facing fear where you can burn it off so that you really can be in a very peaceful. I know Tristan would always say to me, Tristan Trescott, who’s been on the show, he also, it was a very high level black belt and I think he said he’s had one, one fight in his entire life and it was like when he was 19 years old and it ended very quickly.

[00:56:33] JP: Um, he’s never needed, like by having the, by having the strength, it gives you the peace and also the energy that you, you, you generally, if it’s coming from the right space, you don’t attract violence. You don’t actually attract.

[00:56:44] Jesse Elder: Your whole system calms down. And with, I didn’t know about Tristan being in that, in that fight.

[00:56:50] Jesse Elder: Um, that, that, and I’ve, I’ve known him for a long time. That thing that you just said that he’s been in a fight. There’s a part of [00:57:00] me when I hear that, that is, is calmed. And that I respect him even more

[00:57:06] JP: because he’s seen it, people who look, who look death, look violence, look suffering.

[00:57:10] Jesse Elder: Here’s the reality about, about martial arts.

[00:57:14] Jesse Elder: Um, it should be partial arts. There’s nothing martial about it. Martial is from Mars, God of War. It is not martial. It’s, it’s LARPing, you know, it’s this live action role play and people act like they’re actually protecting themselves. They, these martial arts fall apart in the real world. And There are some that lend themselves to reality better than others, Krav Maga, Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu, but unless somebody’s actually had the experience of going face to face with somebody with no rules, where that person is trying to hospitalize you, they’re trying to end you and more than once I’ve seen this murderous gleam in somebody’s eye and you know that they’re just like, I can’t believe I get to do this and not go to jail.

[00:57:58] Jesse Elder: It’s weird [00:58:00] having that predatory feeling and realizing You’re either the predator or you’re the prey in this situation. And human beings are very unique in the food chain that we are, you know, physically defenseless, right? Like we have no, we have crap for claws, right? You know, our teeth are like, yeah, you know, in the, in the grand scheme of things, we’re not, that’s, we don’t have that much going on, right?

[00:58:19] Jesse Elder: But we have this, right? And we have these, and we have the ability to make things and think and ration, rationale. Anyway, until somebody’s experienced physical. Altercation and develop the skills to move beyond their instinctive defensive posturing. They’re, they’re, they’re missing out on the bulk of human power because it’s always going to be in the back of your mind.

[00:58:50] Jesse Elder: What would I do if, what would I do if you’re constantly sizing people up? Is this person a threat? It’s like, you know, it’s the, the, you know, the mammalian and the reptilian brain there’s they’re [00:59:00] interfacing. And so it’s like, can I eat it? Is it going to eat me? Can I mate with it? Like those are the constant chatter that’s going on.

[00:59:07] Jesse Elder: And so what, one of the things that I, that I help people and I just recommend whether they do it with me or not is learn to become lethal. And maybe that means just learning to use a knife. Maybe it means learning to shoot. Maybe it means learning to apply a, you know, rear naked choke. Um, even if you, especially if you never use it, what it does for your, your, this sounds so basic, but what it does for your self esteem when you walk into a room, like I, I can’t imagine being, walking into a room and being afraid that somebody was going to kick my ass.

[00:59:42] Jesse Elder: Like, and I don’t mean to sound cocky and there are many people that can kick my ass. There’s no question. But I don’t walk around

with that fear. Right. And because I don’t walk around with that fear, I don’t project that fear. Right. And because I don’t project that fear, I don’t receive that fear. And that [01:00:00] sounds very, I don’t, I don’t mean that to sound egotistical, but there’s just something in your system that calms down.

[01:00:07] Jesse Elder: And then you have like the spiritual Teflon, this is like, nothing,

[01:00:11] JP: nothing can grip you. Jesse, um, this is not, you know, wow, this was magical today. Um, it is so great getting to know you and, um, you really helped me out today. You’ve given me a new way to look and I have a feeling it’s going to have a big impact that the next time I see you, wherever I see you, this idea of sprinkling more, a little more courage, I have a feeling was the message.

[01:00:32] JP: So. Very timely. It wasn’t meant, we weren’t meant to talk until this moment. Just thank you so much. It

[01:00:39] Jesse Elder: was, it was, I think this is a great example of, of what improv philosophy can be. We didn’t have an agenda. You’re showing up as you, I’m showing up as me. And when, you know, when two minds get together or more minds get together with just the, It’s the curiosity and there’s courage too.

[01:00:57] Jesse Elder: You know, we could have totally played it safe and just talked [01:01:00] only about investments and talk only about numbers and market forces. And we could have talked about that and that’s great. Those are necessary, but we went for it. I appreciate it. Yeah, man.